Finding OK - Healing After Sexual Assault and Abuse

Healing Through Art and Navigating No Contact

• Hecate • Season 6 • Episode 2

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In this episode of Finding OK, I interview Polish LGBTQ+ comic artist Monika, best known for her series 'My Secret Lesbian Comics.' Monika shares her journey as a survivor of child abuse and discusses how she processes her trauma and finds healing through her side project, 'Self-pity Social Club.' We discuss the impact of her abusive mother, the decision to go no contact, and navigating relationships within her family afterwards. Monika also shares some powerful tools from therapy, offers advice to other survivors, and talks about the importance of creativity and friendship in her healing journey. I love Monika's work and I'm so grateful I got to speak with her!

 Tw/Cw: Child abuse, PTSD, depression, suicide, and strong language.

Episode Notes:

Monika's Links: https://linktr.ee/mysecretlesbiancomics?fbclid=PAZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAae7yjg_9oQIvXxzLaaJe7wkVOTud8vqZX3JaqAaWaWBpiYc-EEZZKRhtKKmnQ_aem_QZxxyNZ_UQo6e53MXnGuug

Self-pity Social Club: https://www.webtoons.com/en/canvas/self-pity-social-club/list?title_no=788807

Finding OK: https://www.finding-ok.com/

Hecate's Links: https://linktr.ee/FindingOK

Support the Podcast and become a Patreon member!
https://www.patreon.com/HecateFindingOK

Finding OK is funded entirely by generosity of listeners like you!
https://www.finding-ok.com/support/


Timestamps:


00:00 Introduction and Personal Reflection

00:55 Welcome to Finding OK

01:12 Meet Monika: Polish LGBTQ+ Comic Artist

03:29 Trigger Warnings and Support

04:41 Interview Begins: Monika's Journey

04:57 Navigating Family Dynamics

06:11 Generational Shifts in Mental Health

12:29 Celebrating Compliments and Self-Care

16:22 The Birth of a Comic Artist

27:38 Self-Pity Social Club: A Personal Project

36:29 Sisterly Bonding Over a Difficult Mother

36:48 Financial Manipulation and Emotional Abuse

38:07 Moving to England and Financial Struggles

39:02 Discovering Mother's Deceit

39:41 Manipulative Pity Tactics

47:27 The Wedding Day Incident

50:51 The Fake Suicide Attempt

58:29 Cutting Ties and Setting Boundaries

01:01:22 Family Dynamics and Childhood Abuse

01:07:45 Validating Experiences and Healing

01:11:52 Family Party Drama

01:12:10 Unwanted Attention

01:12:32 Confrontation and Realization

01:13:48 Family Dynamics and Tensions

01:17:02 Listener Questions

01:17:46 Navigating No Contact

01:19:17 Handling Family Events

01:24:00 Therapy and Healing

01:32:43 Dealing with Suicidal Thoughts

01:40:53 Queer Joy and Creativity

01:43:44 Final Thoughts and Farewell






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Ramshackle Glory:

Dhalia never showed me nothing but kindness. She would say, I know how sad you get. And some days I still get that way, but it gets better. It gets better. It gets better. Sweetie, it gets better, I promise you. And she'd tell me, she'd tell me. Your heart is a muscle the size of your fist. Keep on loving. Keep on fighting. And Hold on, hold on. Hold on for your life.. . Hecate: Hi there. Thank you so much for joining me. I'm Hecate, and this is Finding OK, a healing podcast for survivors of sexual assault and any and all abuse. When survivors share, we share strength. You are not alone. Today I'm excited to share my interview with Monika. Monika is a Polish LGBTQ+ comic artist and she's best known for her popular series, My Secret Lesbian Comics, which has over 28,000 subscribers on Webtoon. But she also has a side project which folks may not know about, and it's a comic called Self-pity Social Club. Monika is a survivor of child abuse and is processing her trauma and finding healing through her work on Self-pity Social Club. I hope you check it out because art and storytelling is so important and can sometimes help readers or viewers better process and understand their own trauma and experiences just by seeing it expressed visually. Monika and I spoke about her abusive mother, the events that helped her decide to go no contact, and how she's been navigating that within her family. I do want to add some context before we get into it. This interview was recorded in 2024, just as I was halting podcast production and heading into a mental health break that ended up being over a year long. Monika agreed to the interview knowing it would be a while before it aired, but neither of us knew exactly how long. She was so kind and so understanding about the whole thing, and I am still so grateful. So I just wanted you to know about that time gap because there are some moments where we'll talk about the political climate, especially for trans folks, and I need you to know that it's from last year and we're not just deeply, deeply out of touch. Also, please know that she's done so much more incredible work since this was recorded, and that you can go check that out and get updates on her story by reading her comics. So if you're listening. And you've ever been in a rough place and had someone be really incredible and patient with you, please know that that was Monika, and please celebrate and reward that empathy and kindness by supporting her work. Now let's get into it. Trigger and content warnings for this episode include the following. Child abuse, PTSD, depression, suicide, and strong language. Please check in with yourself and make sure you're all right to continue. If you enjoy the podcast, please consider supporting my work by becoming a Patreon member. Tiers start as low as $1 a month, and membership at any level changes my life. Tier three and four patrons gain early access to Finding OK episodes, as well as a supplemental Patron Podcast called Finding More. Tier four Patrons, get early access to video episodes of both Finding OK and Finding More. Creating this podcast takes an incredible amount of time, energy, and emotional labor, and so if you believe what I'm creating has value and you believe in supporting survivors and compensating them for their labor, please click the link in episode notes to learn more about membership benefits. Finding OK is funded entirely by the generosity of Patrons and listeners like you. Thank you. Thank you so much for joining me. And I wanted to start by asking, are you okay?

Monika:

Thank you for having me. I'm really happy to see you. And I'm pretty good these days. Thank you.

Hecate:

Nice.

Monika:

Probably better than ever.

Hecate:

What's making it better than ever these days?

Monika:

Uh, well, just the fact that I don't speak to my mother anymore and, and, um, the flying monkeys have finally calmed down with pressuring me into putting her back in my life because all the other family members can't admit that she's mental. So they're kind of like, yeah, we understand. So, so that's better. And also I realized, um, I should combat stress by just telling myself that art is my main job. And my daytime job is irrelevant. And so I've been trying to do that and use that to stress less about my daytime job, right? So, that's been helpful.

Hecate:

That's wonderful. Those are two huge shifts. So, congratulations on both of them. Wow.

Monika:

Thank you. Well, actually, I haven't been speaking to my mother for over three years, so it's not new. But

Hecate:

I mean, the flying monkeys calming down. Like, that always makes a huge difference.

Monika:

Yeah. Yes, there's only one left. I, I'm shocked he, it's crazy because it's my dad actually. So he doesn't speak to her because of what she did to me, but he wants me to speak to her. And I'm like, where's the logic in that? Like,

Hecate:

Make it make sense!

Monika:

You can, yes. If you can't stand her then please don't make me.

Hecate:

Yeah. I think a lot of it is generational. I hear a lot of conversation about, like, there being this generational shift where older generations have this, familial responsibility of, like, "she's your mother", or, like, "they're your parent", like, "you only get one, like, you should", the, millennials onward tend to, to be more willing to just be like, no, like, you have to treat me well, or if you haven't, you have to take responsibility for that, and if you can't, then you don't get to be a part of my life. Just not a lot of, uh, of understanding in between the generations in terms of, like, that's an okay decision to make.

Monika:

Yes, I do think millennials and younger care much more about mental health. Whereas the older generations were just like, well, let's drink beer every day. That's mental health sorted.

Hecate:

Fixed it! Yeah.

Monika:

No problem.

Hecate:

Yeah. I think that very, very much like a different dynamic, I guess maybe, you know, kind of depends like on, on like class structure as well, but like a generational, mindset of, well, you just work until you die and, uh, and just like, yeah, and I, I think like when, when you shift away from that and prioritize mental health, I think just a number of shifts, generationally, so I think they're all interconnected,

Monika:

Yes, I'm very interested to see what the world will look like in another 20 years.

Hecate:

Yes, I am as well. Nervous.

Monika:

Yes!

Hecate:

But, interested

Monika:

I'm not like, I'm grateful that I live in times where everything is changing at a quick pace, because I think if I were one of those people in 1600s who were just milking cows their whole life, I would be very bored. But I like that there's changes, there's always like new technologies. You know, uh, more awareness. So I, I, I'm positive about the future. I think it'll be better.

Hecate:

I like that mindset. Yeah. It's, it's been, it's been hard lately and yeah, like a lot of, like big, big changes, big shifts happening right now, but I completely agree with you.

Monika:

Mm-hmm.

Hecate:

Like, I, I would rather be alive. Like, in modern times, rather than any other, especially being like, a femme person or a queer person, or

Monika:

Yes. Absolutely.

Hecate:

Not that it's, not that it's easier, or like, completely like, aces all the way, but certainly better than it has been

Monika:

Now, I'm not gonna get murdered for it, uh, you know, by the state. So, uh, that's, that's a plus. Yeah, yeah.

Hecate:

Less likely to be murdered for it, I'll say, yeah.

Monika:

Yes, yes, yes, of course, of course, trans minorities still have it bad, um, and I do feel for them, yeah.

Hecate:

And I, I wanted to mention, before talking to you, I just reread, like, all your work, and, uh, and was loving, like, the, the more recent stuff, too, and just every time I see one of your, I love all of it, but every time I see one of your comics, that is like trans inclusive and affirming or like fuck TERFs I'm like yes! And it makes me so happy thank you for doing that!

Monika:

Yes I'm actually consciously doing that on purpose because I do follow every um lesbian comic artist I can find right? And I almost never see them mentioning that topic if they're cis so I'm like well but I'm cis but I have something to say because I have trans lesbian friends and like why why is their life so hard? Like, can anybody just leave them alone, please? Like,

Hecate:

Yeah,

Monika:

absolutely, yeah.

Hecate:

Yeah, beautiful, beautiful sapphic women that, like, deserve to be uplifted and, acknowledged. Especially, like, in the circles that they're a part of. So, like, I just, I so appreciate that. Yeah, awesome.

Monika:

Yes, I actually feel like, I have a conspiracy theory, if you don't mind. I have a conspiracy theory that the governments are pushing the trans hate because it's an easy scapegoat. To like, this divert the attention, you know, the public's attention from actual issues, you know, like where are our taxes going? Why are the rich people getting richer? And they're like, oh no, look, um, trans woman using bathroom. Be angry at that, not at me. I'm convinced this is what's happening.

Hecate:

See, I don't even see that as a conspiracy theory because that is so straight up what's happening where I'm just sort of like, no, like we're, we're not gonna put that in like the same realm of Bigfoot, that is 100% what's happening right now. Yes.

Monika:

I see. Yeah.

Hecate:

Like trans folks, minorities, like all that, all that hatred is, is just to, you know, just very much like, look over here.

Monika:

Yes. Yes, like it used to be like that with gay people, and now it's no longer"cool", quote marks, to hate gay people, so they just chose an escape word, and that's, um, that's horrible.

Hecate:

I can't remember what country you're in right now, because I know that you're Polish.

Monika:

Right, yes.

Hecate:

Are you in Poland, or, living in a different country?

Monika:

So I'm Polish, but I live in England.

Hecate:

England. Okay. I don't know how it is over there right now, but like, we've got a whole bunch more, uh, just like within, within this year, I think since like 2024 started. So just. a month and I, I think it's like hundreds of, of anti trans bills just like hit the deck. And it's just like, this is obscene and ridiculous. And I would love if we could be done with this.

Monika:

We don't have it easy here. Like I know a lot of trans women get their estrogen illegally because the waiting list on NHS is extremely long. I know the politicians keep mentioning that. And again, I think that's a diversion tactic, like oh my god, it's not that big of a deal, like why do we care about gender so much? Like, it doesn't matter, let's have 500 genders, who cares? Like,

Hecate:

Yeah!

Monika:

Get your own problems.

Hecate:

Yeah! I just, I just don't, yeah, I don't, I don't get, like, what the, what the problem is, and it, like, whenever, whenever someone says that, um, that thing that's supposed to scare you, like, well, how many genders? And it's just sort of, like, You can have all of them and just like, like you haven't reached the point in your scary argument where anything is actually hurting anybody.

Monika:

Yes.

Hecate:

And if you don't make that point, I'm sorry, then the next step is for you just, just to accept that, more people maybe exist than you thought or like in ways that you don't, don't understand and that maybe you just have to learn something new. And. That that's okay, and I'll bet you can do it, buddy, if you just...

Monika:

yeah! I believe in you! Open your mind.

Hecate:

Oh my god. But I would love to hear a compliment that you've received and that you've never forgotten.

Monika:

Right, so it's quite a funny one, actually, because one time here in England, I was at a train station, and I was just checking my makeup in a pocket mirror, because rarely, but I do wear makeup once in a while, And then some random guy was just like running past, he was like, Don't worry, you look beautiful! And he ran off.

Hecate:

That's so freaking sweet!

Monika:

So I really appreciate it, cause like, well, it was obvious he wasn't like, even trying to hit on me, he just wanted to make my day, and I was like, Oh, bless you. Thank you.

Hecate:

I actually love those, those like drive by compliments that like require nothing, you don't have that like pressure of like what are they expecting or trying to do, where it's just like brightening your day and then leaving and it just makes you really happy. Yeah.

Monika:

Like compliments from women. I will take any day and I, I, whichever way they mean it, I will take it. But compliments from men, right? So I am like, thank you but...

Hecate:

Is there a hidden contract in here that I don't know about? I don't, I don't know. I don't know. Um, yeah, no compliments from women are such a beautiful, beautiful, beautiful thing.

Monika:

Actually, I just had a funny one the other day. So I was clubbing, not this week, but the week before. And we were just pushing, me and my friends, we were pushing through the crowd. It was very crowdy. And then some random woman, I never spoke to her before, she just grabbed my arm. She was like, You're beautiful and I love you. And I was like, I think she's on drugs. But thank you.

Hecate:

Probably, but that doesn't mean it's not true.

Monika:

Thank you. Yeah. I enjoyed that. I was like, okay, that made my day.

Hecate:

And what is your favorite color or color combination and what do you associate with it?

Monika:

So my favorite color is purple. But I don't associate it with anything specific. I don't know. I just, I just love the hue of it.

Hecate:

Nice. I knew somehow. I knew somehow.

Monika:

Yes! I was gonna say, you're in my mind.

Hecate:

The uh, the light, I put the light on purple as well, so I like, oh, I knew. Okay. All right. I was feeling purple today. And um, if I had to summon you in a ritual, what five things would I need to place as offerings at each point of the pentacle on the floor?

Monika:

Yes, so one would be a comic book, because I'm obsessed with them, that's my number one thing in life.

Hecate:

Does it matter which one? Like, any comic book?

Monika:

Just any manga, comic book, Garfield, whatever, just like, I've been obsessed since I could read, basically. Um, and a figurine of a giraffe, because I'm super tall. I'm 5'11 and my friends jokingly will call me like a giraffe or a female titan.

Hecate:

I like that.

Monika:

A Polish dumpling, because I'm Polish and I really love dumplings, like, whenever I go to Poland, I have to have Polish dumplings. Another one is a postal stamp, because, um, one of my most nerdy qualities, I actually collect stamps, um, so that would be one of those, yeah. And the last one would be cheese.

Hecate:

Mmm, what kind of cheese? Any cheese?

Monika:

Any cheese, I eat them all.

Hecate:

Is there a comic book that, you remember, you mentioned you had started reading them, like, growing up. Is there one that stands out, as your favorite growing up as a child that, like, made you fall in love? For me it was Calvin and Hobbes.

Monika:

Oh my god, so good. So good. But I haven't read that as a child. I don't think it was translated to Polish at that point. The one I read back in Poland was Donald Duck. I had like volumes and volumes of it. And I was also obsessed with Garfield. I think because Garfield is a comic strip. That probably really imprinted in me the idea of doing comic strips.

Hecate:

Yeah.

Monika:

Actually, I have a funny story. So, the whole reason I'm a comic artist is because of a misunderstanding. Because, when I was a child, right? So I was a young child reading comics. Let's say I was nine or ten years old. And then I realized, well, there are no adults around me reading comics, so perhaps it's not allowed for adults to read comics. Oh my god, that's horrible. I don't want to stop reading them. And then I realized Wait a second, but it's not children drawing them, it's the adults drawing them. So if I draw them, I will be allowed to still like them.

Hecate:

I love that.

Monika:

So that's how I became a comic artist, actually.

Hecate:

I love that. That's so beautiful.

Monika:

Oh, that's so silly. And then, of course, later I realized that's, that's wrong, that thinking is wrong, but it was too late. I was already in.

Hecate:

Oh my gosh, like, I love the, the logic that's in there. And, like, is it, is it that they started drawing it as kids and then into adulthood that made it possible for them to be drawing it for the children and then, Or, or is it contraband? Are they not supposed to be drawing the comics? Like, I like that. That's really beautiful.

Monika:

Yeah, so I started drawing comics really early, but at first it was just like I was cutting out characters from Donald Duck, and then I was just sticking them in a notebook and putting my own like story, speech bubbles.

Hecate:

I love that.

Monika:

So those were my first comics. I was probably like 10.

Hecate:

I remember being obsessed with the idea of the Sunday, the Sunday paper comics, um, and, uh, and I remember like drawing my own comics and delivering them to my parents door. Like on Sunday,

Monika:

Bless! That's so cute!

Hecate:

Outside their bedroom.

Monika:

Oh my gosh, that's so cute.

Hecate:

But, um, I would, I would love to know three essentials to your self care as well.

Monika:

Right, so number one, and I've learned that the hard way through my every depression episode, and number one is making time for art. Because I just can't be happy if, if my main daytime job is too tiring, and then I don't have energy for art, then my, my mood starts going down and down. So, so I have to make sure that my energy levels are high enough for a side project as well.

Hecate:

Gotta feed the soul.

Monika:

Yes, yes, 100 percent. If I go too long without drawing, I feel like, oh my god, like, what am I living for? Like, am I a robot just making money? And number two, I have a lot of electric massagers. I, like, have a feet massager I use every day. I just, it really helps me relax, you know. It's like a box beneath my desk and then I put my feet in it and I'm like, oh yeah, this is relaxation time. And number three, also very important, is a good social life. Because I'm very extroverted. I'm like maximum, maximum on the spectrum between introvert and extrovert. I'm a maximum extrovert. And if I don't hang out socially at least once every two weeks, I notice I start to get sad. So going to work doesn't count because of course that's not social. It has to be like grabbing a coffee with a friend or something.

Hecate:

I'm an introvert, so I love, um, also, like, seeing you post on, um, Instagram and stuff and, like, the places that you're going and the things that you're doing and just, just sort of, like, like, watching the extroverts out at play and just being like, oh, wow, I can't do it. but I love that they do!

Monika:

It's kind of unusual for, um, I do think it's kind of unusual for a comic artist because most of the comic artists are always saying they're introverts.

Hecate:

I love it, though, because you, you collect all these stories from, like,

Monika:

Yes.

Hecate:

The places you go, the things you do, the people you meet, the interactions that you have with them. I love, I love your saucy, comics in My Secret Lesbian Comics.

Monika:

Thank you. Thank you so much. I'm really happy to hear that. I'm happy to keep drawing it. And I'm happy so many people like it. It definitely got bigger than I expected. I just I just have this need to document my life, and it's almost like a diary of my existence. So I try to primarily focus on like my dating and lesbian issues and, you know, LGBT issues. But I would say like every now and then I'll make a comic about something completely different. Just because it's more like a diary than a lesbian manifesto.

Hecate:

What was the driving force behind, like, starting it? What made you start drawing it?

Monika:

So, actually, it's quite funny, but it's actually because at the time I was working a job that was super chill and I had so much free time. It was an admin job, right? So I would go to the office every day for like eight hours, but actually there was maybe three or four hours of work.

Hecate:

Oh, wow.

Monika:

And between that, I was just, I would just like, you know, chill and read my Kindle and, and I was like, you know, all that time I wanna do something productive with it. So I started bringing my schedule to work and like I made up my new comic avatar and, uh, I started drawing them at that work.'cause I had so much time.

Hecate:

That's awesome. I had no idea. So it just, it just like happened. I love that.

Monika:

Yeah. Just 'cause I had time and I figured, well, you know what? It doesn't feel right to just procrastinate for five hours a day. Since I have energy, I, I should just start a comic series.

Hecate:

Well, it's, it's incredible and I love it so much. Thank you. I started following like a while ago, I think like, 'cause you, you popped up on my suggested I think, um, I saw something that you had posted. Yeah. And uh, and I was like, oh, dang. Yes. Like more, more like queer comic book artists. I love it. Like, I need this. Mm-hmm . The stories you tell, they're so wonderful. I get such a beautiful dose of, like, queer joy from reading your comic. That is just nice. It just, like, feeds my soul in such a wonderful way. And they're just

Monika:

Thank you.

Hecate:

Wonderful.

Monika:

That's, that's actually intentional as well. I try to make most of my comics positive and funny because I've heard a lot of people commenting before. Well, maybe not a lot, but a couple of people have commented before that, like, So many LGBT comics are about sadness, and oppression, and you know, depression, and of course those are so great, I read them as well, but I thought, well, in that case, there's probably people who would like to see the other side. So I tried to focus on the silly and funny and I exaggerate my character to be more silly and more of a fuckboy, if you will. Well, fuckgirl, I suppose. But I swear it's exaggerated for comedy. I swear I'm not that bad. I just have this side of me that I think of as like Johnny Bravo persona.

Hecate:

I like that a lot.

Monika:

But I mostly, I mostly let it out for laughs. Like, when I'm obnoxiously hitting on women, it's to make them laugh, it's not to actually try and, yeah. So that's, that's also what I draw for my character in the series.

Hecate:

Something else I love about your comic is, the sense of, just, just like the sapphic, like, Just how fucking fantastic women are, it just comes through so strongly, and just like, the love of women, how, like, how beautiful, like, smart, funny, just like, how many, just, just, just for the love of women, and that comes through, and I love that so much,

Monika:

Thank you. Yeah. I'm actually very happy at the moment because I just started a new job three days ago and my team is mostly women. I was like, yes, let's go. And they're all like funny and chill. I'm like, oh my God, let's go. Let's hope it's going to be a good one.

Hecate:

Congratulations on the new job. That's awesome.

Monika:

Thank you. Thank you.

Hecate:

Something I just want to, make sure that people are aware My Secret Lesbian Comics, you have a book out on Amazon that people can buy. And I wanted to talk about that and I wanted to talk about Patreon, so that people know,

Monika:

Thank you.

Hecate:

How they can support you. So when did the book get published or made available?

Monika:

Yeah, that was actually during my depressive episode because my last job I had at the beginning of last year, so a year ago, it was soul crushing. It was too difficult, too hard. And I ended up getting depressed and like rage quitting for suicidal tendencies and stuff, right? That's exactly the moment when I realized, well, I'm getting depressed because I'm not making enough art because I'm just so tired from my daytime job. So of course, first I had a little rest, but then because I was unemployed for a couple months by choice, right? Um, first I had a little rest, but then I figured, you know what? There's not going to be a better time to compile my older comics into a comic book. Because now I actually have time every day. I can be a full time artist. And never mind, there's no full time pay, but it's about, you know, it's about satisfaction. So I actually released it, yes, during that depressive episode, and since then I've drawn quite a lot of new comics. So, uh, book number two will probably be coming out sometime, but I'm not working on it yet. Yeah, and then only recently I started a Patreon. I only started it in December 2023, uh, because I realized, well, Well, first of all, Webtoon Play is shit. It's so, it's so bad. I keep getting 1, 000 new Webtoon subscribers every month. New subscribers. So every month my subscriber count goes up by 1, 000. And you would think that would be money bags, but it's actually disgustingly cheap, and there's diminishing returns. So the more reviews you get, the less you get paid per view. And I'm like, why? Why does it have to be like that?

Hecate:

Oh, jeez.

Monika:

So I'll be honest. So that was a reason why I was like, you know what, like Webtoon is just shit. Um, I, I kind of like, of course I'm not doing it for money, but I want to make some money on it because it takes so much of my life. So I started a Patreon.

Hecate:

Yeah, you deserve to have your work supported as well.

Monika:

Thank you. Well, also I had a more pure reason because basically I just had some funny comic ideas for really like erotic and naked comics and I figured that's not gonna go on Instagram. I'm gonna get banned. I'm going to get blocked so fast.

Hecate:

You had mentioned that in a, strip or something, yeah, that you have spicy stuff available on the Patreon. So, so things that were like removed from Webtoon or that you knew you were not going to be able. able to share anywhere else. And so, like, if we want the, the spicy extras, we can, we can support you on Patreon and get those, those yummy extra comics.

Monika:

That's it. So, um, the comic strips I draw there, I committed to drawing one extra comic strip a month. They're not like pornographic. That's, that's not my intention. My intention with those is mostly comedy, except, you know, they're naked or it's more about sex than Instagram can take. But I am working on 18 plus, uh, one short fantasy, uh, lesbian story, just because I figured, you know what? I want to try drawing porn. Why not? You only live once. So, so I'm working on a one shot, you know, one chapter kind of fantasy story, like, um, lesbian girlfriends getting laid.

Hecate:

I love that. And so, so people will be able to find that on, like, the Patreon, yeah?

Monika:

Yeah, eventually, eventually, yeah. It's still gonna be a long time because, unfortunately, um, as I mentioned, I found a new job. So, unfortunately, I'm a full time employee again, which will slow down my porn progress, but I'll try my best. Maybe I can do it by the end of this year, hopefully. But it will be on Patreon one day.

Hecate:

Wow, that's awesome. Our jobs get in the way of porn. I'm sorry.

Monika:

I know. I wanted to draw porn. Like, please. Now I gotta make money. Oh, my God.

Hecate:

Oh, my God.

Monika:

Capitalism sucks.

Hecate:

I'm not arguing. Yeah. Oh, geez. So if you're, if you're comfortable shifting focus, I wanted to talk about the other comic that you created, Self-pity Social Club. What made you decide to start drawing that, and what is that about?

Monika:

I started it before the depressive episode, but I was already headed there, if you will. So I was not in a very good headspace, and I figured, you know what? I love, I love expressing my feelings for comics. I should try that on a negative side. But my main series, as I mentioned, I wanted to be like positive and happy and just to make people laugh. So I just started a second series called, Self-pity Social Club and it's on the Webtoon as well. And funnily enough if I don't advertise it anywhere, uh, it's more of a, like a secret project, but of course today the secret gets revealed. So yeah, it doesn't have half as many followers as the main series and it's more of a, it's a really sketchy, really quick, just power my feelings out on the paper. Well, straight onto the computer, actually. And then I make it very dynamic, very energetic and kinetic just to express my feelings rather than worrying about, you know, getting the anatomy right or, you know, getting the composition right. This is purely like an emotional project.

Hecate:

I love how just pure and gestural it is and your use of color.

Monika:

Mm-hmm. Hecate: Was just really expressive thank you.

Hecate:

Gosh. The, uh, one, one of the ones that really jumps out to me you really, um, you get across like these kind of like PTSD moments and just like how, how they feel or how they're experienced, like in your mind or in your body, and one of the ones, mm-hmm Really, like, just you visually I just got it across so beautifully was the, um, when you're watching a movie and like a triggering scene comes up and you just like you showed just like that that like dissociative glitch so perfectly and I really related really strongly to that.

Monika:

Thank you. Thank you. That's good to hear. Actually, I'm sure at least one or two people commented on that saying they also think that I portrayed it very well.

Hecate:

It was perfect.

Monika:

That's good. I was just. Yeah, that was super triggering scene. It was a child abuse scene in Moon Knight. which was a very good TV show. Overall, I enjoyed it. But then the main character suffered from an abusive mother. And I'm like, Oh, that hits too close to home.

Hecate:

Yeah.

Monika:

And then she was like, banging on his door with a belt. And I was like,

Hecate:

Oh, you had, you hauld mentioned belts specifically being a trigger for you as well in another strip.

Monika:

Yes, yes. Unfortunately, that's the case. So I'm fine most of the time, like I don't get triggered much. I don't have many triggers, but, uh, belts specifically, yeah, like the sound of the metal part of the belt clunking. Yeah, yeah, I've had a situation before, like I'll just explain the situation from the comic, where somebody was undressing behind me, so out of my sight, and I heard that clunk of the metal part, and I just got a PTSD flashback from when my mom, because my mother had a collection of belts. On her closet and she would hide them on like inside the closet on a metal bar. So whenever she opened that closet, they would jingle and I would know, well, this that's what's gonna happen next. Well, so, so the, the expecting of pain is almost worse than the pain itself because I know it's coming and I know there's nothing I can do to stop it. So when, uh, when I heard, well, in my adult life, years after when I heard that jingle behind me, I think that was like the first. one of the few, but the first PTSD attack I had. Although I'm, I'm not qualified to properly like, you know, describe it myself and say whether or not it was a PTSD, but it looks like it. But yeah, basically I just froze and I covered in sweat and all the different alarms went off in my head. It's like there were 10 cars going off and 10 kettles going off and I just got sweaty for no reason. And I couldn't. Couldn't make the alarms stop. And yeah, that was quite hardcore. After that I was like, whoa! Yikes.

Hecate:

Was that something that happened before you started drawing the comic? Or something that happened along the way?

Monika:

Yeah, so that was years before, back when I was still in the closet and dating men. So, actually, the person taking off the belt was my ex boyfriend. But that was years ago. For a long time, I just shuffled all my, all my trauma into a closet, and I just did the best to not think about it, and I didn't want to admit that anything's wrong, and it took me, it took me until, like, I was 25 to slowly start realizing and accepting that my childhood was not very good. Because of course, children don't have a frame of reference. So I just assumed, oh, this is normal. Everybody's got home life like this.

Hecate:

Yeah.

Monika:

And even though I moved out of house one month after high school, and I moved all the way to England, I, I didn't, I didn't really connect that to the fact that I'm just running away. Even though some of my aunts were like, you know, Monika, it seems like you're just running away. And I'm like, no, what are you talking about? My life is great. But I was just very comfortable being 1000 miles away from my mother and seeing her on my terms. So that's also I noticed even then I remember, because I moved right after high school, right? And I noticed quite quickly that I don't miss her, ever. And I was like, that's that doesn't sound right. What's happening there? So yeah, but still it took me until like 25 to start realizing that something's even wrong and sometimes like just the comments people say and I'm like, that's Is that how parents act? You know, like I'm, there's so many things that where I'm not even aware what normal mother is supposed to act like. And it's, it's kind of crazy. So if, if I may give an example, right. So my grandmother passed away during COVID. So I think that was early 2021 and I was in England. She was in Poland. I couldn't attend the funeral. Because, of course, back then we had all the restrictions, right? And I wouldn't have made it in time.

Hecate:

I'm sorry.

Monika:

Ah, thank you. It's alright. So, even though, at that point, I already had cut off my mother, but I think specifically in that moment, she wasn't blocked or anything, right? Because there's different periods of time when I block her, unblock her, and we share a family chat together, so she can always reach me on the family chat. Because I just want to be part of the family still, so I'm not quitting that one. So she could have reached me, but then one of my friends was like, Oh, did your mother like reach out to you about your grandmother dying and you being sad? Because it's not her mother who died, it's the grandmother on my father's side. And I was like, no, no, why would she do that? And I was so confused. And then my friend was like, what are you talking about? Of course she should care that you're sad that your grandmother died. And I'm like, she should? I like, it just never occurred to me like, oh, is that how people operate? Like, I'm, I, I'm not a psychiatrist. I can't really diagnose people, but from what I've read and heard on podcasts, I suspect she's narcissistic. Because she seems to see herself as the center of the world, and she doesn't care about anybody else's feelings. And she's very manipulative. And I have one sister, and when we lived with her as children, she made us compete for her love. Me and my sister, it's very sad actually, we used to like, really dislike each other, because we were always competing, we were always telling on each other. Like, I was the so called good daughter, she was the so called bad daughter. Which, of course, it's fucked up in the first place that my mother would make it so obvious that she prefers one of us. And even though I was the so called good daughter, I still have so many bad memories. So yeah, it's quite difficult. Only after I moved out and I gained some distance, I was able to start having a relationship with my sister and I'm very grateful for that. And we try to stay in touch now and talk and we hang out every time I go to Poland because I do love my sister. I want us to be close. It's just a shame that it took us until our twenties. To be able to feel that way.

Hecate:

The perspective that we gain as we become adults is just so different, and the relationships that maybe weren't possible when we were younger, become more possible down the line, and I'm so glad that you're able to connect with your sister and have that relationship now. Yeah.

Monika:

Yes, I'm really happy. And also, my sister is still in touch with our mother. She's kind of, like, restricting it. Like, she never gives her money because our mother is horrible for using people for money. She's so selfish. But still, my sister does want to keep her in her life. So, she also, like, gives me updates sometimes about, like, the new fucked up shit our mother does. So, I suppose that's a bonding experience, at least. Like, we can complain about her together.

Hecate:

The financial thing seemed to be, a very important theme when I was reading your comics strip.

Monika:

Yes, actually, that's weirdly, her manipulative side is something I'm more traumatized about than the physical abuse. Because like, she stopped physically abusing me when I was about 15, and I feel like I could have gotten past it, but it's more the emotional and the financial abuse that made me realize, I think she's just a bad person. Um, which of course took me years to get, get to terms with. So, she's just so manipulative. And ever since I cut her off, um, it's Well, I'll get to it later, but there was one big event. Uh, well, you've read it in the comic. One big event that made me cut her off. And, and then, ever since then, it's like she dropped her mask. So, other people also know that she's messed up, manipulative, lying, stealing, like So now she's like the black sheep of the family. So at least I'm grateful for the fact that the rest of the family believes me. Because they can see, like, her mask is gone for some reason. But yeah, she just keeps using everyone. She doesn't want to work, but then she wants everybody else to support her. And she, like, expects it and demands it for no reason. It's, it's really weird. Yes. So I moved out right after high school, right? I'll get from the beginning. So I moved out right after high school and I moved to England and I went to college. So I was studying full time, college first and university. And I was working on the weekends, minimum wage, McDonald's. So, you can imagine I was not making a lot of money. I also had student loans in England, and I was making them weekend money. Back at the time, I didn't have the comic series, so I wasn't making no money for art. But still, she got it in her head that because I live in England, I'm rich, and I'm supposed to take care of her financially. She was working full time. I don't know how it happened. First of all, she was receiving child benefit because my parents are divorced. So she was receiving child benefit for me for like up to 25, yeah? But at some point she said, oh, it doesn't come anymore because you're abroad. It doesn't count. Sorry. And then months later, I found out that's a lie. She was still receiving my child benefit and she was just keeping it to herself. And that's just so mind boggling to me as an adult. Like, you have a child alone, abroad, working minimum wage two days a week, and you don't want to help them out, and you steal from them? Because the child support money was legally meant for me, and she just lied that it's not coming to keep it for herself. Um, so my father was furious when, when he found out, and then he stopped paying it, and yeah. But still, that was not the point when I cut her off. I forbear that. Again, She, she's so manipulative in ways, like she always, she manipulates people's pity. That's a really big thing in my mother's life. She always manipulates people like,"Oh, I'm the poorest, I'm the saddest, I'm whatever, my life is so bad". And she will manipulate your feelings into feeling bad for her. And she's trying to steer it so that you will offer to buy her stuff. Which is, Also quite crazy, but yeah, it took me a long time to realize she's using me like that for my money, which I didn't have, and I just, somehow I felt responsible financially for my mother, which is crazy. She was the one with full time income, and I was the one with Maki's, McDonald's, so Yeah. Yeah, so I ended up, like, buying her furniture because her bed was bad. She would like complain to me that "Oh, my vacuum cleaner broke" and I would buy her a new one. Or whenever I went to visit Poland, her fridge was empty so I would take pity on her and I would cover the groceries for the whole time of my visit. Until one day my sister told me that actually normally the fridge is full and she just empties it before you come over.

Hecate:

That, that story was like crazy to me.

Monika:

That was one of the most mind fucking moments of my life. I was like, what do you mean? That point was before I started to realize there's something wrong. So I was like, why? She's manipulating me into buying her groceries. I couldn't comprehend it. It was, it was so crazy.

Hecate:

Well, and all that other stuff, I can see that It would, it would just be this, like, insidious, or you might be able to, like, excuse it more and more in your head, or just be like, well, maybe she doesn't realize, like, how she's acting, or, like, maybe she didn't mean to do that, or maybe she's not aware of it, but, like, removing the groceries from your own fridge in order to trick your child that's visiting into thinking that you don't have food, so that they'll buy you food. That's like, you are removing groceries from your fridge, like you can't tell me that you don't know what you're doing.

Monika:

Um, yeah, I imagine maybe she was just like, scheduling it so she would stop buying groceries at a certain point before I visit or something like that. And it's like, who acts that way? I like, even not as a family member, but as a host? If I have like a guest from Poland coming over for a week, I'm going to take them out for a meal.

Hecate:

Yeah. You can make sure you can feed them.

Monika:

Yes.

Hecate:

You're right. Yeah.

Monika:

I'm gonna be like, what milk do you prefer? Should I buy soy milk? Should I buy regular milk? Do you like coffee? Do you like tea? I'll be, I'll be standing on my head to make sure they have everything they want. Even as a host. And it's like, why would you go the other way? And then I told that story to my good aunt. So in my comic series, she's called Aunt B. So my mother has two sisters. One of her sisters, Aunt A, she's a cunt. I cut her off as well. And then Aunt B is the only good one in the whole family. There's something wrong with women in that family, they're all fucked up. Aunt B is the only good one. And, and we talk about my mother quite a lot, right? Because, of course, she knows her very well as well. And she told me some bad stories from her perspective as well. So I told her that, and she was like,"Oh, but your mother would borrow money from me anytime you came to visit". for you And I'm like, oh my fucking god. She was playing us both. Like, just, and working full time? Can you imagine? She's just disgusting. She's just disgusting. I just can't understand. And all the people around her keep helping her out so much, right? Because she's very close to her sisters and her mother. And she just bites the hand that feeds her. I'll give you another example. So after her mask dropped, right, she quit work. And she was like, you know, saying she's too depressed to work and whatever. And then, so her sister, again, the good aunt, Aunt B, she found her a job cleaning houses privately, because that's what my aunt does, yeah? So she basically helped her get some money. And then as a repayment, my mother tried to bite her out of a gig. She was like, Oh, you know, you're going to hire my sister to clean your house. I'll do it cheaper than her. Can, can, can you even imagine that? So that's how she repaid her sister for getting her a job.

Hecate:

That's pretty low.

Monika:

That's just unthinkable. I don't understand. So that's why I think, I'm pretty sure, she thinks she's the center of the law world. Nobody else's feelings matter. I just find it hard to comprehend. How can somebody be that selfish?

Hecate:

It's. Baffling and painful to, to also just figure out, like, especially when it's a parent and someone who was, you know, like, as, as you find out later in life, it's like, oh, you were supposed to be, the safest person, and

Monika:

Yes.

Hecate:

And yet,

Monika:

yes. I'll tell you another funny story. So her sister A got cancer, but it's fine. She's healed now, right? But a couple years ago she got cancer, unfortunately. And then my mother said to her, you only got cancer for attention?

Hecate:

What the fuck?

Monika:

I know, right? What the fuck? I just, I just don't comprehend how she's thinking. It's, it's beyond me.

Hecate:

That's, that's like really. That's really fascinating. I was just, um, I was just, doing a thing where I was, like, rehashing a history that I had with somebody in my life that had, like, narcissistic tendencies, and I was talking specifically about, like, pain and illness. And the way that it's like perceived by others and I was using this person as an example where I had had an experience with them where I had been ill and their first thought was, you're doing it for attention. And that's like a really interesting parallel, like. Cause, what I was saying was like, that makes, if that's your assumption right off the bat, is that when somebody's sick, they're doing it for attention, that's the indicator that you are the bad person because that's a shitty assumption. Now that you tell that story, it also just makes me think like that it just reflects your perspective on the universe, which is like, everything revolves around me if somebody else has something happening that is detracting from my spotlight, um, you know, that,

Monika:

Oh 100%,

Hecate:

anything interesting, you know, illness or pain being "interesting", like, you know, or a tool of interest, like, if it occurs to someone else, then it is, like, It's just like this completely skewed, perspective.

Monika:

Yes, there's actually another similar story because I remember a while, while ago, she told me she has brain tumor. And then, because again, she will, she liked to get people with pity and this and then she never mentioned it again. And it's. And it's not a thing. And I'm like, did she ever have it? I don't, I don't think she did ever had it. I think she was lying straight up, just for like the pity points. She's so obsessed with getting pity from people.

Hecate:

Fake brain tumor is like, next level. Holy shit.

Monika:

It's like, why would you even lie about it? Like, obviously people are going to notice you're not going to operations or anything, like. What the fuck? I swear.

Hecate:

Wow. Wow. Yeah.

Monika:

So, talking about speaking Spotlight, that's actually a good segue to go into the main story that made me cut her off.

Hecate:

Yeah.

Monika:

Because I think part of it was about spotlight as well. Because she did something horrible on my sister's wedding day. And part of me believes that was for the Spotlight because she hated not being the main character. So, my sister got married, right, in 2020. So at that point, I was fully aware that my mother is manipulative and I don't want to send her money anymore, but I was still trying to save the relationship. So she called me about two weeks before the wedding, right? I was still in England. And she started trying to manipulate me into sending her money for clothes for the wedding. She was like, "Oh, I have nothing to wear. Um. Nothing good that fits me", and I'm like, "well, wear an old dress. I'm wearing an old dress" and then she was like, "oh, no, no, but I gained weight, nothing fits me anymore". She wanted me to offer to buy her a dress, basically. She always does that, right? Um, but I was, at that point, I was fully aware, so I was not buying it. I was like, "well, you can borrow a dress from one of your sisters. I'm going in an old dress". Why should I give you money for you to have a new dress?

Hecate:

So many solutions. So many options.

Monika:

So many options. Go to a second hand shop. Buy one for two quid. And then she was like, "oh no, but I'm the bride's mother. Everybody will be looking at me". And I'm like, "no. Everybody will be looking at the bride. And everybody knows you're broke, so they're not gonna hold it against you if you're wearing an old dress". But also, nobody knows if it's an old dress or not, nobody remembers all the dresses you have. First of all, that's a, that's a faulty argument to make. So I refused, and then she kept pushing me. So I just lost it, and I just told her straight, "Listen, I know what you're doing. I don't want to be your wallet anymore. I'm sick of being your sponsor. I'm trying to save our relationship, but I need you to stop asking me for money because I know you're using me for money and I want to have a good relationship with you. But if that can happen, then I'm not sending you money anymore". And she wasn't happy, but she agreed. So that was two weeks before the wedding, right? So shortly after I went to Poland and back then, whenever I went to Poland, I stayed at her place because she has a spare room, right? And my sister already moved out by that point, so that's why she had a spare room. So the wedding day came, and the wedding spot was only 10 minutes from the house, walking distance, right? But she was late, first of all, she was late to her daughter's wedding. So I think, okay, that's a spotlight thing, isn't it? Yeah, and then, uh, I just avoided her the whole party, because, like I said, at that point, I knew she's toxic, and I'm like, oh, I just don't want to play her games. So the whole party, like, I avoided her. It was actually, I got very drunk. I had a great time. It was a great wedding. And then the next morning, I woke up about 10 a. m. So it was already bright out. Uh, my first ever hangover as well.

Hecate:

Oof.

Monika:

I survived. And then the, the way her house is laid out, my guest room was as far away as possible from her bedroom. So I would normally steer that way, but it's like she left me breadcrumbs for me to follow because she wanted me to go to her room. So even though it was early, bright out, I go out of the guest room and it's the bathroom and the light is on, and that already switches a red flag in my head. Like, why is the light on at 10:00 AM It's bright. And then I, next up is the kitchen. Again, the light is on, so I go into the kitchen. And there's sleeping pills spilled all over the counter. And at that point I'm like, I don't know about this. Something's not right here. So the next on my path was the living room. And she left a suicide letter. And an empty bottle of vodka on top of it, right? So she just wrote a short letter, something like, "Oh, I'm sorry, I can't do this anymore". And she put an empty bottle of vodka, implying that she drank it all with the pills. Um, so yeah, that was a hard comic. That's actually quite a recent comic I drew in that series. And I just froze for, I don't know how long I was like, Oh my God, should I go into her bedroom? Should I not? Should I just call the ambulance right away? But there was some sound coming from her bedroom. So I thought, well, maybe I should check it out. I don't want to call the ambulance if nothing happened. So I went in and again, for the manipulators perspective, there were our childhood movies playing on that TV. I think that's a manipulative move as well looking back. And then she was on the bed, like, unconscious and not responding, so I went upstairs to get her mother, my grandmother, and we called the ambulance, and that was a very traumatic day for me, and I was, like, panicking and wailing and freaking out, like, why, why? Even if she felt that way, I'll admit, selfishly, I thought, why would she do it now when I'm here? I only visit Poland twice a year. That's, that's weird timing. And also why, like, on her daughter's wedding day, so that's, that's why I think that's part of stealing the spotlight, right? Because suddenly the next day was all about her. Of course, everybody knew in the family, the ambulance took her. Her sisters came around and they stayed with me and we were talking about it. And my mother went to the hospital with her mother. And so me and her sisters, we were talking, we were trying to figure out, like, what happened? She seemed quite normal yesterday. What happened? And then Aunt A, the mean one, but she's always been mean. She's, she's a bad person as well. Even though I was clearly traumatized, because I was the one who found her like that, right? I couldn't eat. I couldn't, like, sit straight. I was just like, fucked up. And even though I was in that state, she was, she started throwing accusations, saying it's my fault. And I was like, and then Aunt B, the nice one, she started telling her off, like, shut up. What are you saying? What's wrong with you?

Hecate:

That's an awful thing to say to somebody.

Monika:

Oh, I know, right? So yeah, so that was quite heavy as well. And her arguments were weak as well. Oh, oh, it's because I forgot to mention it's because When the paramedics came and they started shaking her, right? My mother, she started making those disgusting sounds like she wants to puke, but she can't. And then the first thing she said was,"it's because my daughters don't love me". Which again, I think was a deliberate, well, now I think it was deliberate, but in the moment I was like, what the fuck? Um, because. It's true, we don't love her, but like, we have good reasons not to love her. Like, I'm

Hecate:

so sorry.

Monika:

Like, we're still trying to have a relationship with her and stuff, right? But it's true, we don't love her. I'm sorry, but it's true. So yeah, so that's, that's why my Aunt A was like, "this is all your fault. It's because you weren't there for her when she was depressed", whatever. Which, again, it's kind of weird, like, I'm the child. I shouldn't be my mother's emotional crutch. I don't even live in the same country. She has all of you, because my family is big. She has all the rest of the family with her in Poland. Meanwhile, I'm in England alone with no one, right? No family support. And I'm the one who's responsible for her depression? Like, please. So yeah, so that day I decided, you know what? I think I'm gonna cut off Aunt A. She's just, she's gone too far. She's gone too far. I knew right away, like, oh, this is not the right thing to say to someone who found their mother after a suicide attempt. And then I couldn't stay in that house anymore. So I grabbed my things and I stayed with Aunt B, and yeah, it was a hard couple of days. And then we got like, I think on the next day or two, we got a message from the hospital that they, they did the thing where they took everything out of her stomach, right? I forgot what the word is and they found no pills. So she just spilled the pills, drank herself senseless, and called it a day. I think maybe she wasn't expecting us to actually call the ambulance. Because clearly she was gonna, well now I know, she would have just woken up. She was just drunk. And the pills were just, you know, a manipulation. So the hospital told us a couple days later there were no pills and she wasn't picking up the phone from anybody. She wasn't responding to any messages. At that point, I was like, you know what? At that point, I realized, okay, she's playing me. She's just angry with me because I, I said out right that I'm not going to be your sponsor anymore. I don't want to send you money anymore.

Hecate:

Yeah, you set a healthy boundary.

Monika:

Imagine that. And then, of course, as a punishment, or I think maybe not as a punishment, but maybe she was again trying to do an extreme pity bait, I call it, where I'm like, oh, now I feel so bad for you because you're depressed and suicidal. I'm going to start sending you money again. I think that was her intention. But also probably like part of it was stealing spotlight from my sister on her big day.

Hecate:

Yeah. When I read your comic, I read that timeline and I was so focused on that experience for you, like, finding her and what you went through that I, like, even though you had said, that it was the wedding and you set that up, like, I just didn't even think about the fact that she had done that the day after her other daughter's wedding and, like, what,

Monika:

Same day, same night.

Hecate:

Just how absolutely wild that is and it's just,

Monika:

Yes. It is crazy. I do think she's crazy for attention. She does and says crazy things quite a lot. So basically, my mother was in the hospital for a couple days. We knew it was a fake suicide. She wasn't responding to any messages, right? But she knew what day, I'm flying back to England. And she texted me like the day before. And the first thing she texted me was, "Are you feeding the cat?"

Hecate:

Are you, are you feeding the cat?

Monika:

Yes! I know! I know! I told my cousin, because at the time my cousin was nearby, and my cousin just laughed in an angry way. He was like, No, tell her it fucking died.

Hecate:

Oh, jeez!

Monika:

Which of course was not true. Because her mother lives there, I'm sure her mother was feeding the cat. But, The point is, why is that the first thing you said? Oh my god. Anyway, so, so I told her no. I couldn't stay in that house anymore. I'm not there anymore. And actually, as a side note, I haven't been to that house since then. Because to me, it's cursed. I don't want to cross that doorstep anymore.

Hecate:

That's a really traumatic thing to have happened. Yeah.

Monika:

So, because of my response, she realized that I'm upset. Which, I think it's crazy. I think it shows that she never considered she might have upset me, like, in a sympathetic way. So she was never going to be sympathetic about me going through the traumatic experience of finding her like that. Right. So that's my point. Because she realized that I'm angry, and I'm traumatized, and I moved out. Then she started doing the manipulative, manipulation, the usual pity bait, as I call it. Where she sent me, like, she's done it so many times before. Once in a while, she would send me this very long chat essay, saying, "Oh, I'm such a bad mother. I know you deserve better. You would be happier if you cut me out of your life. I'm sorry I'm such a burden". You know, like a really long essay in that. And she's said a couple times before, well, multiple, to me and to my sister. And then, of course, I would always do the normal response of like, "No, you're a good mother. I love you. Yeah, it's all fine. Here, have another, um, another hundred pounds", you know. And so, of course, I kept doing that, except for this time. I realized she's just, you know, playing me. She's, I, I decided already I'm cutting her off. So I said, Yes, I agree with you. I will be happier without you and I'm, I don't want to hear from you anymore. And I think it's hilarious in a black humor way that her mask dropped right away. She just dropped the mask right away, even though a minute ago, she was writing this emotional essay about being a bad mother, right? As soon as I said it, she was like, "No, you can't do that. I'm depressed. It's not my fault". So I was like, Oh my God, I can't believe she just dropped the mask instantly. So all these times she was telling me, "Please cut me out of your life. You will be happier". She never meant it because at one time I agreed she's she backtracked right away. She was like, "No, you cannot do that. It's not my fault. I'm depressed".

Hecate:

That's not what you're supposed to do when I say that.

Monika:

Oh, yes. That was like the final straw that confirmed in my head that she's just manipulative. Because up to that point, I'll admit, I had some doubt. I was thinking, okay, maybe she is depressed. Maybe she was sad at the wedding for some reason. Maybe I'm being a bad daughter by planning to cut her off after her fake suicide thing. Yeah. Maybe she just, she needs my help or whatever. But the moment that moment when her mask dropped, I was like, okay, that's it. She's a bad person. I'm cutting her off. So yeah, that was, uh, over three years ago. And like I mentioned, we share our family group chat, but because there's a lot of people there, she usually refrains from writing emotional essays. Although sometimes she will, sometimes she will be like, "Oh, Monika, please. When you come to Poland, stay with me. I miss you so much". And then everybody else is like, "Don't. Don't do that". But yeah, I blocked her privately so she cannot message me privately. Although, unfortunately, I did have to unblock her a couple times because there was like paperwork for the house or whatever. So there, there was reason to unblock her. And the couple of times that I did see her, she still tried to manipulate me so bad. Uh, like one time we had to meet up like a year later for some legal paperwork stuff. Right. So we, I just met her in town, her and my sister, and we went to the lawyer to sign something. And in the waiting room, she launched her pity bait right away. She was like, "Oh, don't worry, Monika, about, like, supporting me when I'm old, because as soon as I pay off my debts, I'm gonna kill myself".

Hecate:

Wow!

Monika:

You know, like, right away.

Hecate:

Wow.

Monika:

But I know it's a bait. I know it's a bait.

Hecate:

That was, like, both barrels. Just, holy shit. What?

Monika:

Yes. And me and my sister were just rolling our eyes, because at that point, we're fully aware she just, she doesn't mean it. For one thing, she's too narcissistic to kill herself. She's not. She's gonna be a ripe old age and then when she's retired she's gonna sue my sister and I for um, like alimony or whatever it is where you have to pay benefits for your parents. We expect that.

Hecate:

Oh jeez.

Monika:

So yeah, that's crazy. There's one more story I want to say, which is more about my sister, but it's okay, I have her permission to talk about it. So my sister was the assigned bad child, right? Which I think is also common in narcissistic households, if I'm not mistaken. Like, you're assigned a scapegoat.

Hecate:

Yeah, like the scapegoat child, yeah.

Monika:

Yes, yes, so that was my sister. So it's actually quite funny because my sister and I, we disagree on who had it worse. I think she had it worse. She thinks I had it worse, which kind of shows how bad it was. So there was a point where I was in secondary school and my sister was in primary school where my sister was changing for PE and somebody noticed the marks on her body, right? Like the belt marks on her back. So somebody approached like the school psychiatrist and they started a whole case about child abuse. And we actually had a police case about being taken away from our mother for abuse, right? So, we spoke to the police separately and all that. But of course like Poland is a very religious, conservative country, so they were not that forward thinking back then. So they just told my sister, oh, If you're just behaving better, she's not, she's gonna stop hitting you. So,

Hecate:

oof

Monika:

that didn't happen. Well, I mean, us being taken away didn't happen. And also, crazy thing. Even though she had a police case for hitting her, she didn't stop hitting her. She still beat her after. Which, for one thing, I, I started to say, I think my mother just has a low IQ. I think she's just stupid as well as abusive.

Hecate:

Okay, I'm glad you said it because I felt bad, like, being the one to just say it.

Monika:

No, you can say anything.

Hecate:

And, and also, I do hear, that that's kind of, the fear that is instilled with children who are abused, of it being discovered or it being reported because, if the report doesn't go all the way with the child being removed, then that, that fear of, like, then I'm going to be punished for the trouble of the police involvement or the report existing, and just, like, that being a whole, a whole problem.

Monika:

Yeah. And there is one more crazy story about that, right? So, we lived in, uh, poverty, that was after my parents divorced, we were only raised by my mother, my sister and I, my mother, we lived, the three of us, right? No father figure. Well, my father was, you know, visiting and all that, but, anyway, he was separate. We lived in poverty, we literally got like, like donation food in our fridge. That was like, free food from European Union fund, whatever, like it had ? Stamp on it, right? And then, after the police case thing, I think, like, 100 percent just to manipulate my sister into feeling bad, she said to my sister, who was, how old could she have been, she was maybe like 13 at the time, she said to her, Oh, I was going to adopt a third child, but because of you, because you reported me to the police, now I cannot adopt, and it's your fault.

Hecate:

That's fucked up.

Monika:

Well, first of all, that's fucked up. Second of all, that cannot even be true. Because as a single mother, making barely any money, nobody would let her adopt a child. That's not how adoption works.

Hecate:

That doesn't make any sense.

Monika:

That was a complete lie, but of course my sister was 13. Why would she even say something like that? I, I just,

Hecate:

and, and also like, like even if, even if adopting were possible, it's just a total shift of responsibility.

Monika:

Mm-hmm. Hecate: Because like, because you had Like, it's your, it's your responsibility to just sort of like, I love how we skip over the fact that you beat your children and that that's your decision and your fault. Yes, she's just messed up on so many levels. That's, that's all the main stories I wanted to get off my chest. Thank you for listening.

Hecate:

Yeah, no, no, thank you. Like, thank you. Hearing all these stories and, just making connections with, the comic strip, that, that I've been reading and, like, it, it adds so much, so much context. Honestly, that's, that's why I started, the podcast is so that survivors can connect so that we can talk to each other and hear from each other. Everything helps in terms of of healing, whether it's, you know, like working with professionals, or reading books, or anything like that. But why I started doing this was I noticed that the conversations that I was having with friends who had shared experiences, whether it was with abuse or sexual assault, and that, connecting with them and hearing somebody else, uh, share an experience that had any similarity with your own and just kind of, uh, sharing with each other because there is just like this, this really important aspect of sharing with other human beings, whether, you know, they're friends or, or, you know, like someone that I connected with, you know, new in the world, like you like to, to hear from another human being and to know that you're not alone and then to, to make connections and say like, "Oh, me too".

Monika:

Yes.

Hecate:

That's really important. And I think survivors learn so much from each other and we all just kind of like pool our knowledge and our experiences and help each other process what has happened in our own lives and then heal, and in whatever way is best because healing is so completely unique to each individual person, not just because their, their experiences are unique in their lives. But because like different things will help different people. And so like hearing from different people in terms of like what's useful, what's helpful, like what works for you. And so I, like, that's why I started doing this is just to have the conversations. So I'm all about conversations.

Monika:

It's a really great project. I'm sure your episodes have helped a lot of people. I especially enjoyed your episode with Obelis.

Hecate:

I was so excited that she said yes. I'm so excited that you reached out.

Monika:

Yeah, she's great. She's great.

Hecate:

Yeah, it's, it's been really exciting too, like, getting to talk to people from other countries. That's been, like, a relatively new thing, because it started with more, like, people that I knew at first, and then branching out more and more, and getting to connect with people, like, across the world, it's just been a really exciting development, so, yeah.

Monika:

I want to say on a slightly more, like, selfish note, but I think I'm justified. Another way that talking about my experiences helps me, It's because other people reassure me that I'm not the crazy one, and, and my mother is a cunt.

Hecate:

That is

Monika:

Of course at first I wasn't sure, if I'm just like, am I exaggerating? Is this like a normal childhood? Should I shut up? And then I draw those comics. And then I actually love it. I know it's kind of sick, but I love it when people comment that, oh, your mother's a cunt, I hate her.

Hecate:

Yeah, no, it's super validating.

Monika:

Validating, that's the word, yes.

Hecate:

No, it, like, it really does help an immense amount to just be like, yeah, so this happens and have someone else say, "That's really fucked up". You're like, you're right. It is. Thank you.

Monika:

Yes.. Yes, exactly.

Hecate:

Yeah, no, that's like an incredibly important part of it., and it, it feels weird, but it is, it, it helps.

Monika:

Mm-hmm. Hecate: It helps you put it into Yes.

Hecate:

A part of abuse is just this constant process of them, manipulating how you see them and how you

Monika:

Yes.

Hecate:

Uh. Just understand the dynamic and it's really difficult to start to shift that over time to be like that was unacceptable or that was inappropriate or this is a healthy boundary and you constantly question yourself after years and years and years of conditioning. And so it's really helpful to have that outside perspective of someone say, like, just validate that, like, that was unacceptable. You deserved better. Yeah, without that, you're just in your own head. And you'll be fighting yourself sometimes. Um, like, I still do it. It's years since I've exited certain situations with certain people and just every so often I'm like, am I just crazy? Maybe I, like, you'll still

Monika:

Am I exaggerating?

Hecate:

-have those moments. Yeah.

Monika:

Oh, definitely. Yeah. I'm like, am I just being a cunt? Am I exaggerating? Yeah, I talked to my mother again? And then I hear some new story of what she did, and I'm like, okay, she's still, she's still a cunt, she's still a bad person, it's just, now I, because the whole family knows, right, basically that day when I found her, that day was the day when the dam broke. And I ended up telling everyone everything. I just couldn't hold it in anymore. So now everybody knows in the family about like our childhood and how fucked up. So they just come to me with like new stories of another fucked up thing she done. I'm like, well, yeah, still a cunt.

Hecate:

You had kind of mentioned that like her mask had dropped more with the family.

Monika:

Yes.

Hecate:

And was that when that happened? When you told everybody all this information, she just like. Like, didn't see a point in it anymore, or like, how do you think?

Monika:

Yeah, maybe that's it, or maybe it was just the fake suicide thing in general, I'm not sure. But, like, actually, yeah, the way you put it, that does make sense. Maybe she knew, maybe she found out that I'm telling people. But, again, because I don't think she's intelligent. She just decided to stop bothering with the mask.

Hecate:

She couldn't manipulate the information that everybody had anymore because like controlling what everybody is aware of is like a huge, huge, important part of that. And if you took away some of that control, maybe that shifted the game.

Monika:

I suppose maybe it's not just me, but maybe also because the whole family knew that there were no pills in her stomach. So they all knew it was fake. That's a game changer. So she's still, she's still the same. She still tries to pity bait people. Once in a while she'll message me on one of her essays if she's not blocked, but now she's blocked again. And then I just wish she wouldn't be shameless enough to do it publicly on the family chat, or At first I was avoiding all the family reunions, right? Because I couldn't stand to see her. But now it's been three years, and I'm like, okay, why should I miss out on great family parties? If there's gonna be like 30 plus people there, I can just avoid her. I can just be civil about it and be like,"yes, hello, how are you doing, bye". You know, like pretend we're neighbors or something. So I've been trying to do that but still she keeps pulling some weird shit every time. She's so weird. So the last time I saw her in person, right, so it was June 2023, and there was this massive family party in the countryside, 50 people, all family. So like, you know, all the cousins, aunts, drinking, dancing, it was great. And I figured, yeah, that's enough people, I can easily avoid her. And then she's so weird. She just started acting like a paparazzi towards me. She was following me with her phone like that. Recording me openly. So yeah, she doesn't bother pretending anymore.

Hecate:

Like the whole time?

Monika:

Well, no, no, no. Not the whole time to be fair. That was closer to the end and that was maybe like for half an hour. But still, I realized Because I was dancing on the dance floor, yeah? And then I realized she's recording, and I thought, Oh, no, I don't want to be in your video, cunt. So I moved behind the tree. Because this is happening, like, on the countryside, outside, yeah? So I moved behind the tree. And then she moved to have me in the frame again. And this happened, like, Well, the first time I was like, well, that could be a coincidence, but then she did it two more times. I was like, okay, she's just taking the piss. She's specifically targeting me with her camera and well, people, of course, wouldn't care to notice, but it's going to be obvious when she posts that video, which she did. So I just moved three times and then I was like, oh, I, I don't feel like dancing anymore. She's ruining it for me. So I walked away. I went and I sat by the bonfire and I started talking to people instead. And she sat opposite me, in the same bonfire, and she kept recording me, just talking to other people, and I was like, okay, she's just

Hecate:

Do you think she was trying to, like, antagonize you, or get you to, like, act out towards her? Like, that's so weird.

Monika:

I don't know I think, maybe she was hoping for, like I think she was playing it like, Oh, I miss my daughter so much. I'm such a good mother. If I can only see a glimpse of my daughter, I'm gonna make this moment last forever. Something like that, you know. Because I miss my daughter so much, because I'm such a good mother. Something like that. That's how I see it.

Hecate:

Fucking yikes.

Monika:

But yeah, that was really stressing me out, because of course I went there, thinking that, well, she's not gonna pull anything off in front of 50 people, surely. And then she did and I just started sweating like what what's she doing? What's she gonna do next? Because that's the thing with crazy people. I never know. the next step. And then the next day, she went missing for a bit. And my aunt, her sister, was getting nervous that she's going to do it again. You know, like another suicide attempt, just because I'm there and I wasn't paying attention to her. Something like that. But no, it didn't. It was fine. She didn't do anything that night.

Hecate:

Jeez Yeah, following you around, recording you. That was not what I expected. I don't know what I expected, but that was not it.

Monika:

What the fuck, like?

Hecate:

That is so odd.

Monika:

I did not expect that.

Hecate:

No.

Monika:

I did not expect that. Because at this point, she stopped trying to talk to me, because she tried that at a previous event, where she was like physically following me, trying to talk to me. And I was so uncomfortable, I just kept, engaging other people in conversation to be like, oh, please pretend you're busy with me. So she doesn't have to approach us because of course she doesn't want to talk about it in front of other people, right? She's looking for a moment where I'm alone. So I just made sure to not be alone. But of course that was stressful as well. That was a family funeral, by the way. So I had to go. Well, I wanted to go because I loved the person who passed away. But eventually she did catch me alone at the end. And I was like, Oh, please. First of all, I was angry, like, this is a funeral, can you stop making this about yourself, like, just fuck off, just leave me alone. But I didn't say it like that, it was like, "oh, please, just unblock me, please, just talk to me, tell me everything I did wrong, I'm gonna be better", whatever. And then she keeps doing this thing, that's a thing she did a couple times, where she made up a fake reason why I'm not talking to her. I think maybe to justify it in her head, so she's like, "Oh, Monika, I know you're not talking to her because I wasn't respecting your sexuality, but I changed now, I'm better now'. Um. And I'm like, "that's not the reason, and you know it. I'm not talking to you because of the abuse". And the not accepting of my sexuality is like, yeah, that sucks, but that's like a drop in a lake. And then I just said it, like, straight up, and she got really silly. Like, she was feeling very uncomfortable, looking very uncomfortable, and she walked away. So I think she also has this narrative in her head, where she blames something else. You know, like, oh, it's not my fault because I was raised in a Catholic country to be homophobic, so it's not my fault I'm homophobic. Therefore, it's not my fault my daughter's not talking to me. Maybe it's something like that.

Hecate:

That like, inner narrative. The story that she tells herself about who she is and how everyone like that's, wow, that's really interesting and just continuously keep shifting away from the fact that you abused your children

Monika:

Yes! She keeps refusing it. It's so bad. And then sometimes my sister tried to tell her that again on the chat because again, my sister is in contact with her, right? And she will send me a screenshot if something bad happens. And she, she still keeps denying it. She's like, I'm sorry you believe that's what happened. Like.

Hecate:

Oh, classic!

Monika:

Classic!

Hecate:

Holy shit. Oh god.

Monika:

Oh my god. Crazy.

Hecate:

Oh, like cringe.

Monika:

Cringe, I know. Oh, okay. Now I'm going to let you ask some questions.

Hecate:

Yeah. No. And you, you actually, you touched on some things. I collected some, some questions from some listeners. So like members of my community and I, I let them know that I was going to be speaking to you. So I have a couple of

Monika:

Oh really?

Hecate:

listener questions and, uh,

Monika:

Oh, that's lovely. From like your Patreon?

Hecate:

Um, yeah, or like my, my Discord as well. Like I have a Discord server. So like there, you know, some listeners in there and we have like a mental health chat and I just kind of said like, Hey, I'm going to be talking to Monika, like, and, you know, here's, here's some of, the things that we're going to be covering. Does anybody have any questions? And you've touched on like a couple of them. One of the questions was from somebody who is starting to navigate this like no contact situation in their own life. And they were asking, how do you navigate keeping connection with people, specifically in your family, who are still in contact with your mother?

Monika:

Yes, it was hard at first, but basically I'm a very, well, I don't mean to toot my own horn, but I'm a very like peaceful person. I don't want to cause drama. So even from this very beginning, I was like, when I was telling everybody my story, everybody in the family, I was like, well, I'm not expecting you to do anything about it though. I'm not expecting you to cut her off or to tell her off. I just want you to understand why I'm not talking to her. So most people were not, you know, emotionally invested enough to care about the fact that I don't talk to my mother, so they were fine. They were like, "Oh, yeah, you do you. It's perfectly fine". Some people did pull the flying monkeys, like, "Oh, but she's your mother, you know, especially the older people". But then I just ended up telling them again and again, like, it's not even about the past. It's about the future. I want to protect my future self from the next trauma that that she would definitely cause me. Because that's the thing, she's still toxic, she's still bad. If I let her back into my life, she's going to traumatize me again. And I've had enough. So please, don't make me let her back in. Why do you wish for me to get hurt again? And eventually, slowly, they mostly got it. They mostly got it.

Hecate:

Well said. And that, that actually answers the next question, which was, how do you handle questions from family members about your decision?

Monika:

Yes. Yeah, I'm just I've just been honest with most of them. Yeah.

Hecate:

Yeah. And then the other one that you kind of touched on a bit with you talking about the reunion and the funeral was, how do you handle family events in general?

Monika:

Yes. So the thing is, I only started handling them last year. So for the two years, first two years, I just cut her off completely. I just stopped going for Christmas. You know, any family function, I wasn't there. I just did everything I could to never meet her. But then third year, I was ready to start going back. You know, missing the rest of my family. So yeah, I did touch upon it. I just think, well, if it's a big enough group, so I still don't go home for Christmas because there's only like 15 people there. And it's her house. So I wouldn't feel comfortable because again, it's the same house and also there's not enough people for me to feel like sheltered. But if it's, if it's a bigger event with like 30 plus people, then I feel like, okay, she's not bad enough to want to talk about it in front of everyone. If I just surround myself with people all the time, and I even, I even had a friend with my cousin's wife. She, she's in another situation. And at the funeral, I was like, Oh, please. Get closer to me and make it seem like we're talking, because my mother is looking at me again. Let's make it seem like we're busy and she cannot approach, like I'm not approachable. Um, so she played along. Well, in the end it didn't work, but it worked for most of the time. And then, yeah, and then I just hope that she's normal enough to not start wailing on top of the tables that I'm ignoring her.

Hecate:

Yeah. Do you think, having those years of gap before you rejoined, like, family events and things, like, do you think that really helped kind of set the stage for, um, you eventually returning? Do you think it would have been harder to immediately, like, to not have that time and distance and just like continue and just be like, we're not talking anymore. I'm still here.

Monika:

Yes. Oh, yes. I think it'll be harder because for one thing, I think if other family members saw us together like a month later, they would assume everything is fine.

Hecate:

Great point.

Monika:

And they would, they would double down on me to be like, well, if everything's fine, if you're still attending family events, just talk to her.

Hecate:

Really great point.

Monika:

So, I think that those two years helped people understand that actually Monika is serious. Actually, she really doesn't want to talk to her. So from that point of view, I think that was good. And also, well, from my own mental health, I just couldn't stand looking at her. So I just preferred to feel lonely and miss out on family parties. And at that time helped me like put things in order in my head. And of course, because after the big event I started talking about it. I talked about it to all my friends, all my family. And the more I talked about it, the better I felt about it. I did a bit of therapy as well. And I think after two years I just gained the strength to go back.

Hecate:

I'm glad you took that time to yourself and, like, just didn't, you know, shove it back in the closet for yourself and just really took the time to process, get some space. It's incredible that you immediately, like, after that happened, like, made that healthy decision to go no contact for yourself.

Monika:

To be fair, I have to admit, it's easier for me because I live abroad and the rest of my family is in Poland. So there is a physical barrier of like, I only visit on my turns. I'm the one buying flights. I'm the one deciding where I'm sleeping over. So whenever I plan to come to Poland, I just reach out to my family members I like, and my friends, and I'm like, Hey, can I sleep at your place between Monday and Tuesday? And then, and I plan my whole sleeping situation before I even go to Poland. So I just don't give her a chance to find me.

Hecate:

Which, you know, and there's, there's some advice kind of woven into, into that is if somebody is considering going, no contact is like how much separation can you possibly get for yourself? Like. Not, you know, like, not to say that everyone can move to a different country in order to make it happen for themselves, but, how many, like, degrees of, of just separating control and access can you possibly give yourself, like, you know, any, any distance that might make it easier, to kind of like disrupt access.

Monika:

Yes. And I personally, of course, I'm no professional, but I would advise people to do what I did and be honest with the rest of the family. Just don't sugarcoat it. Just say she's a bad person. I don't love her. She brings nothing positive in my life, and she will traumatize me again, so please don't force me to see her.

Hecate:

Yeah, no, and I, I like that you, framed it that way for other people, because I think it does kind of make them think about what they're actually asking. Like, you're asking me to hurt, to be hurt. To have more harm caused, you know, to experience more pain. Like why, if you care about me, why would you ask that? So

Monika:

Yes.

Hecate:

What can you tell me about your healing journey or what that's looked like for you moving forward?

Monika:

So it's, it is pretty hard to me because some were how I have this really strong sense of I cannot let people know I'm weak, therefore I must deal with everything myself. Even though I know I said now that I'm talking to friends and all that, but for a long part of my life it was like that. So I think because I was so self sufficient as a child as well, because I had to be, because my mother was not a good parent, now I end up feeling like, oh, I have to deal with my problems myself. So that ended up backfiring when I had like a really big breakdown and I did also struggle with suicidal thoughts sometimes. So, it got bad at some points, but my main clutch is my friends. I'm lucky that I have some really close, long term friends that I can message them like, Oh, I'm feeling so bad right now, can I call you today? It doesn't have to be now, but can I call you tonight? I just want to, you know, vent and most of the time they'll agree. That's been my biggest, biggest clutch, my social life. And then eventually I did end up doing a bit of therapy. That was a year ago when I had the depression that made me quit my job. Then my work paid for like eight therapy sessions online. So it wasn't like a long therapy But I didn't find it very helpful because she gave me some really good general advice on how to be less strict of myself less of a perfectionist put myself first So for example some really good advice She told me because I do struggle with wanting to be perfect, right? I feel it comes from the childhood because I had to be the perfect daughter and now I have to be a perfect You know employee or whatever. But she gave me a really good advice. She said, Monika, if you imagine like a circle containing all the people, you know, all the people you've ever met, how many people of those do you actually care about? Only maybe like a small circle inside, right? People who are like your closest friends and family. So whenever you think. About what are people going to say about my decisions? You should only be concerned with what this group says, not what your boss says, not what your neighbor says, or your acquaintance, like, you know, it doesn't matter if my boss thinks I'm lazy because I just quit the job from one day to another. It matters that my friend will tell me, okay, your mental health was bad and I'm glad you quit your job. So that really helped me put things into perspective. And another really good advice she gave me, which I'm still used to to this day, very commonly. She gave me a good advice saying, well, if you imagine a school essay, if you score 80 percent on a school essay, you would do a great job. That's a great mark. Therefore, you should also apply that to your everyday life. You don't have to do things 100 percent perfectly. Whenever you make a mistake and you feel bad about it, just say to yourself, well, actually, I got this like 95 percent wrong, so I have nothing to feel bad about. This is a passing grade.

Hecate:

I love that.

Monika:

So I'm actually using that quite a lot. Yes, because it's true, because I do end up like making one small mistake and then obsessing about it for the rest of the day. I also have internalized, she helps me realize, I have an internalized bad parent. Like my mother who repeats the things that my mother used to say to me. So I do a task. I make one little mistake and all I can think about is like, "Oh, I'm so stupid. I'm so worthless. I'm so lazy. Whatever. My boss is going to be angry", you know? So she helps me understand that as my internal parent speaking, because that's how my mother used to speak to me. That's how I speak to myself now. So I've tried, I know it's silly, maybe a little bit cringe, but actually I'll tell you something I haven't said to anyone before. But it's fine to put it on the podcast. I've chosen a fictional mother from a series I really like. And I try to internalize her as a good mother instead.

Hecate:

I love that.

Monika:

So I know it's silly, but I'm like, so basically I do something bad, I start calling myself names, and then I'm like, no, what would my good mother say? And then I imagine this wonderful, wonderful character, mother figure, from this TV show. And I imagine what she would say to me. And I tell myself those things.

Hecate:

That's, that's such a good idea. I, I'm, like, I can't even express to you how in love with that, like, mechanism, I am blown away by how perfect that is. Are you comfortable sharing, like, which, which character it is? Like, if that's super personal, you don't have to.

Monika:

That's cringe.

Hecate:

Whoever it is, like, I'm so glad that you did that because that's so incredibly beautiful.

Monika:

Thank you. So I think that is also like, uh, my therapist's suggestion, which I was like, yeah, actually, I can just choose a new internal mother because it's my internal life.

Hecate:

Yeah.

Monika:

I don't have to be mean to myself.

Hecate:

I love that. I, and I love that you mentioned the, think it was actually during, the pandemic and like during lockdown and just having an incredible amount of just quiet time with myself in my own thoughts that I started recognizing that like the, the negative self talk, like that inner voice and separating when it was an internalized version of somebody else that had. Like put negative things and I had taken over and I started just doing their job for them and for me, rather than like a bad parent I identified it as like my internalized mean girl where I had like mean girls from school and I just have inner mean girls now in my head telling me shitty things about myself and and every so often something that works for me is when they're, you know, telling me something. You know, just like "You're a piece of shit and like no one likes you" and blah blah blah like, "Shut the fuck up" and and like to actually name them and just be like "Shut the fuck up Krysta" and to just like to actually just like say their name and just be like I know who that is and I don't appreciate it and like mm mm.

Monika:

Wow. That's really impressive. That's really meta. It's like, specifically naming the voices in your head. I'm sorry I laughed because it's funny.

Hecate:

No, it's funny and it feels funny when I do it too, which isn't a bad thing so that I'm able to laugh about it. Like, cause otherwise something else that I was doing was I was also starting to, trying to bully myself into being nice in my own head where I was like, "Why are you talking so shitty to yourself? You should be more positive." And like and and was like feeling like a failure and i'm just like this is a really vicious cycle and it is not helpful and just being instead just you know, like, noticing when it's happening and just being like, yo, like, "Shut the fuck up, Jessica". Like, I don't appreciate it. Fuck off.

Monika:

So funny. Oh my god. Isn't it crazy how complex human psyche is? Why do we have internal voices?

Hecate:

What a wild ride being a human being.

Monika:

Exactly. Exactly. But I'm glad that you found a way to deal with it. That's a really funny way.

Hecate:

Yeah, no, and thank you so much for sharing yours. Like, this is the stuff. Like, I love this. This is why I love these conversations. Oh my gosh.

Monika:

Yes, I'm really grateful to the therapist. That was a good match, and even though we only had eight sessions because I didn't need anymore. I just cried to her for one or two, and then she focused on giving me advice like that, like objective advice you could give to anybody, and I was like, holy shit, that's, that's like 300 IQ, that's so smart, like

Hecate:

And it works, like I, I love the visual that she gave you with the circles as well.

Monika:

Yes.

Hecate:

That's really helpful.

Monika:

It's true. Like, why, why should you care what your boss thinks about you when you're probably not gonna speak to them in five years?

Hecate:

Like your boss truly gives a shit about you, like, let's not do this. Yeah.

Monika:

To care more about what your beloved people think about you, and they would be on your side.

Hecate:

And, and if they're not, why is that? Do they deserve to be in the circle? Like,

Monika:

Yes.

Hecate:

You know.

Monika:

Yes, absolutely. I admit I've been lucky. Um, perhaps because I'm extroverted, but I've been lucky in the friendship department. I have so many wonderful friends who. Helped me through a lot. And now whenever I visit Poland, I stay with them and it's great. I'm very, I'm very grateful.

Hecate:

I'm so glad that you have friends and especially like going through depression and struggling with like suicidal issues. Like, I'm so glad that you have like a nice group of supportive friends that you can turn to. Um, cause that, that can be really hard and not everybody has that. So that's, I'm. So incredibly glad that you do.

Monika:

Thank you.

Hecate:

Can I ask, is there, something that got you through the struggle with, with suicidality?

Monika:

Well, that was quite a strong struggle and sometimes it still is, but the main thing that stops me from doing it is, again, my friends. Because I think, well, they love me so much, I don't want to hurt them like that. And one of my friends, especially one of my closest friends, she already lost my close friend, not to suicide, but to sickness. And she's so, of course, she was so traumatized by it. So I'm thinking, well, am I really going to put her through it again, selfishly? So yeah, whenever I think about it, I'm, I'm thinking, well, I should not do that to my friends. There are people who care about me and I don't want to hurt them in that way. Another thing to worth mentioning is that well, that's another thing that the therapy helped me realize, but. I should not let myself get carried away with the feelings of the moment, because the feelings always pass. So even though I might feel suicidal right now, like before, it would feel like, yes, I'm the, this is so bad, I should do it. But now I understand, no, tomorrow I'm going to feel differently. Tomorrow I'm going to wonder why, what was I having those thoughts? Like this is just like a moment of weakness and most of the time I'm happy. Most of the time I'm a positive, extroverted, friendly person and quite happy with my life. So now I understand that just because I feel bad right now, it's not going to last. So I just have to wait it out, and tomorrow will be a new day, and I will be glad that I didn't do it.

Hecate:

That's been my experience as well, and I had a very, very, very dark time in my life when I was younger and was institutionalized very briefly. But, after climbing out of that, every successive, um, Like dip or like depression that I'll fall into it gets just a little bit, not, not that it's not dark every time it happens and not that it's not excruciating every time it happens, but it does get just a little bit easier. To climb out of that hole every time, and there is just that little bit of faith or knowledge, just having those experiences and knowing that, like, I know how to get out of this hole. It's possible to get out of this hole. This is not forever, and I know that I have done it before, and I'm gonna do it again. And I'm probably going to have to do it again. But,

Monika:

Yes. It's part of life unfortunately.

Hecate:

Yeah, especially like for, for those of us who, you know, have abuse in the past that are healing from trauma, like it is a very common thing to struggle with. And thank you for talking about it. I know that it's heavy shit.

Monika:

Absolutely. Thank you for putting me on the path to speak about the advice that my therapist gave me because I would probably kick myself in the back if I didn't say it because I think that's such a good advice and I hope somebody listening will implement one of those techniques.

Hecate:

I hope so too. Like, like when you said that about like the, the, the mother, like the good mother. I'm so excited for people to, to hear that so that they can, like, I'm like, I'm thrilled, like, and so excited for people to be able to, like, go out there and, and look and choose their good mom, or, you know, their good dad, or whoever, whoever they need in their life.

Monika:

Yes, and it's all fantasy, so it doesn't even have to be a character who's older, old enough to be a mother. Just choose any fictional character who's kind and sweet and a good friend and a good person and imagine what they would say to you.

Hecate:

Yeah, I love that. That's so freaking beautiful. Thank you. I know that you just changed so many people's lives like with just that advice. Like that's so good.

Monika:

That would be great. That would be great. And before we finish, if I can just have one, one funny comment. Um, if this podcast is going to make anyone go and read my second series, Self-pity Social Club, please feel free to call my mother names. I'm always happy to read those comments.

Hecate:

The comments are open. Yeah. Nice.

Monika:

Yes. I go back and check new comments every once in a while.

Hecate:

So I wanted to ask what role creativity plays in your healing and in your life?

Monika:

I think I would've been a comic artist regardless of my abuse. So that's not a big thing. However, that second series I started has been very helpful in me putting it to paper and then crying about it. And then I put some sad music in the background and it helps me work through it. So, after a lot of the episodes I drew, I, I often ended up like, ended up like crying, but it was like a good cry. And then, um, it's also been helpful because when I put it that way in a comic, and then I sent it to my closest friends or my sister, and now it's easier for them to understand what I'm going through. And so it's easier for them to give me, you know, good advice, or respond the correct way. So I think that's quite helpful, personally.

Hecate:

I'm really glad that you've been processing it and expressing it in that way, that it's helping you communicate. And it's really beautiful that you've been sharing it with other people as well. And

Monika:

Thank you.

Hecate:

I want to ask, what have you struggled with the most in your healing or what has been the most challenging for you?

Monika:

Suicidal ideas. I, I've always been suicidal. I'm not sure exactly why, I think it's probably from, you know, that internalized bad parent always telling me bad stuff. For a long time I had this strong voice inside of me telling me that I'm pathetic, and that I'm embarrassing myself by staying alive. And that's why I should kill myself. So that's probably the hardest bit. But, I talked to my friends about it, and it's been better.

Hecate:

For me, I think it was around second grade that I first started becoming suicidal. And something that was helpful for me to kind of think was, it's not always necessarily about a desire for death, but, a deep desire for change, um, that just has no, that is just so, so massive, especially since coming from childhood, that it just, it had no other context, that it's a desire for, for change or transformation sometimes, you know, and, um, I want to check in. How are you doing?

Monika:

Sorry, I'm gonna blow my nose. Yeah, it's fine. You don't have to cut out that part of crying. I think that's good.

Hecate:

No, it's, it's, it's entirely up to you. And if you, if we want to just, like, take a second to, like, move around, that can really help.

Monika:

Okay. Okay. Yeah, sorry, that, um, that one bit just, you know.

Hecate:

You don't have, you don't have to be sorry, and like, thank you, thank you for talking about this stuff, and if you, if you want me to, to cut out crying, like, like, I, I generally cut out the check ins, because they're personal.

Monika:

No, I think, I think it's better to leave it in, because Because it's honest, and I, I, just like, I want my art to be honest. I want this interview to be honest.

Hecate:

Yeah, and it's honestly, like, I tend to figure, like, there are these moments that, like, the person listening might be crying as well. Like, I, like, it's, it's all really heavy stuff, and I just really appreciate, like, you coming here and talking about heavy shit.

Monika:

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Hecate:

Are you, are you comfortable if I ask a couple more questions?

Monika:

Yeah.

Hecate:

So I wanted to ask where have you found strength and support?

Monika:

Mostly my friends.

Hecate:

Mm-hmm. Monika: Mostly my friends, definitely. I do have some close family members. I am close with my sister, but I think my friends have been there for me for a long time and I trust them so deeply and they care about my wellbeing. Queer joy? Where do you find queer joy and what is that to you?

Monika:

Oh my god, I love going, because I'm outgoing and clubbing and stuff, I love going to clubs I love seeing all those like very happy, very colorful people just who just want to lift each other up. It's so, so nice. For example, I just, like I mentioned, I just started a new job. So I'm just meeting new people there. And there's this one man, uh, who's, I would say he's queer coded. I don't know for sure he's queer, but he's queer presenting if you will. And he's just walking sunshine. He just walks around like,"Hey, how are you doing? How are you doing today? Oh my God. You're new. I love your necklace". Yeah. I'm like, Oh my God. Yes. Thank you for approaching me. He's so happy. I, I hope I, um, I hope I meet him many more times. So I just find like queer people are more honest because we tend to be more aware of all those issues like this. And so queer people tend to be kinder and more patient because a lot of us have walked through pain. So I think that's also really helpful. And because whenever I meet a queer person, I know, I know I'm safe. I know they're going to understand me most of the time. And yeah, that's, I'm really happy. There's a big community where I live.

Hecate:

That was really beautifully said. I just like,

Monika:

Thank you.

Hecate:

Oh, how do you handle dates where they know about your comic?

Monika:

Oh my god, that's a funny question actually, because, um, well on one hand it's a bit awkward because if they read all of it then they know about me much more than I do, I know about them. So it's almost like a parasocial relationship except we're actually having a date, right? I think it only happened like once or twice. Where I've, like, a fan recognized me on Tinder. That was quite uplifting, actually, because my Tinder radius is so small, only 10 miles, and we matched, and she was like, Oh my god, I love your comics! I was like, yo, what the fuck? But the funny thing is that I was expecting more women to be like, Oh, don't put me in your comic. I don't like that. But actually, most women are like, Am I in your next comic? Is there a comic about me coming? Even though they're all anonymous, they want to be in the comics. So that's quite funny.

Hecate:

I love that.

Monika:

I love that, right? And I take care to always make it anonymous, always change the names. But still. Then I will finish the comic and I will send it to her first and say, Oh, this is you, by the way. In case you missed that update. Because I don't expect them to follow my Instagram religiously or anything. So yeah, I just send it to them and they find it funny. So that's, that's really positive actually.

Hecate:

I love that. Cause I, like, I remember, one of the ones that sticks out is, the one that you wrote about, like, um, someone's like taking off their shirt and there was like a head bonk and they were like, is this going to be a comic? It was so freaking cute.

Monika:

That did happen, that did happen for sure. That was actually the woman who recognized me on Tinder. It was the same woman.

Hecate:

Oh. I love that. Do you have anything to say to the survivors who are listening?

Monika:

Yes, I would say, please write down the great advice that my therapist gave me. Because it will apply to most of us. And please find a nice fictional mom. You can do it. And don't give up, like, even though, even though you might be feeling down today, you might not be feeling the same in the future. You will not. The feelings pass and we should not let feelings dictate extreme actions like suicide.

Hecate:

Thank you so much. Like, thank you so, so much.

Monika:

Thank you so much. I have a great time. I feel great.

Hecate:

Me too, I'm, I'm so excited, like, and thank you, like, this has been amazing, and I just so, so appreciate you.

Monika:

Thank you. Thank you. You're very kind, you're very kind. Thank you, thank you.

Hecate:

No, and I'm so, I'm so excited to share this with, uh, with other people too, because like, you're wonderful.

Monika:

Yeah, absolutely.

Hecate:

Thank you. And, uh, and I will let you, uh, get on with the rest of, of your evening. And I just so, so appreciate you. Thank you. Thank you so much for listening. Please check episode notes, there you'll find links to Monika's comics and her wonderful book that's available on Amazon. I hope you'll go show her some love and appreciation. Episode notes is also where you can find all my links, so you can check out my website, follow me on social media, subscribe on YouTube, and catch me live on Twitch. I want to remind everyone that with the disruption and changes we've been seeing with social media platforms, this is a good time to make sure you're following creators, organizations, educators, artists, and activists on other platforms in case they're forced to move elsewhere and so you can have access to anything they might be producing That's being censored by social media. We need to stick together and stay connected. I especially encourage you to support your favorite creators on platforms like Patreon and Substack. If you didn't know, it's free to follow someone on Patreon if you can't afford a subscription. A massive shout out to all my Patrons that made today's episode possible. Thank you Emerald, Meadow, Urja, Kathleen, Sedonka, Bryony, and the Gob. Welcome in Gob. We're so excited to have you with us. Y'all are absolutely incredible and I am so grateful every single day. It's been especially wonderful getting to know some of you more in Discord and on Twitch streams. Thank you all so much. This is an especially meaningful episode for me thanking the Patrons because of the time gap involved, because this was recorded a year ago, and then so many of you have supported me and stayed with me during the year plus mental health break that I had to take. So you have supported me all that time waiting for this episode to finally happen, and it means so, so much to me. Thank you all so much for all of your, your faith and your support. Thank you for sticking with me. Today's episode was edited and produced by me, Hecate. The music is, Your Heart is a Muscle the Size of Your Fist, used with the permission of Ramshackle Glory. Thank you again for listening. This has been Finding OK. Destroy the kyriarchy and keep working towards collective liberation. Take care of yourself and take care of each other.

Ramshackle Glory:

Your heart is a muscle size of your fist. Keep on loving, keep on fighting, and hold on and hold on. Hold on for your life, for your life. Your heart is a muscle the size of your fist. Keep on loving. Keep on fighting. And hold on, and hold on. Hold on for your life.